'I know
you're serious.' And that's dialogue for me
Samuel
Packiam PhD
Rev Dr
Samuel Packiam is an ordained minister of the Church of South India,
Tirunelveli Diocese who completed his PhD in Christian Muslim Relations from
Westminster College, Oxford. He is presently on deputation to the Interfaith
Coalition for Peace, New Delhi. He has also been designated to be the director
of Henry Martyn Institute of Islamic Studies at Hyderabad. He spoke to Victor Edwin SJ on the status of
Christian-Muslim relations in India.
Edwin: Rev Samuel,
kindly tell us how you got interested in studying Christian Muslim Relations?
Samuel: My passion
for bridging religious differences has been shaped not only by my spiritual
connection to the Christian tradition, which promotes striving towards the
common good, but also by my upbringing. As a youth, I was privileged enough
to travel to many places as part of the gospel team. Thus I was exposed at a
young age to people of diverse ethnic backgrounds as well as introduced to
people of various faiths.
As an undergraduate I studied theology at Leonard
Theological College, Jabalpur. During this time I became interested in
early heresy in the Christian Church. As I studied, I began to realize that the
understanding of Jesus Christ in some of these instances, such as the Nestorian
interpretation, was very similar to the Islamic understanding of Jesus
presented in the Quran. The Islamic interpretation of Jesus and Christianity is
not far off from the former beliefs of past Christians. After finishing my
first degree, I went on to work with the Henry Martyn Institute, Hyderabad as a
Junior staff member and complete my Master’s in Islamic studies. I started
looking at Islamic interpretations of Christianity, especially at how
Christians are viewed as People of the Book in Muslim society. I wrote a
graduate paper on The Status of the Muslim in a Religiously Plural Society.
This paper convinced me of the need for education in Islamic Studies, and
sparked my interest in educating Indian Christians and Muslims on the need for
understanding. I gave a presentation on these issues, and have continued to
present this discussion throughout my career. Through my education, I realized
I was called to build bridges of understanding between Christians and Muslims.
A Muslim is not someone to hate, but rather someone to love. A Muslim is not
someone I should hate, but a believer in Jesus, just from a different
perspective. I developed a passion for educating my Christian colleagues about
Islam and the Muslim identity. We need to promote understanding, and with
understanding and grace, we should be able to live together in peace.
Edwin: You have had
a lot of good experiences in working with Muslims; kindly tell us something
which is deeply etched in your memory?
Samuel: The
experiences and insights gained from working together with religious people who
are firmly rooted in the faith and teachings of their religions never need to
become enemies, even if they are at odds in terms of their communal
interests. Religious community leaders often share the same pastoral
concerns, whether they be Muslim or Christian. Pastors and Muslim leaders
from Saharanpur setting up a monthly “fraternal” in which many issues of a
theological, pastoral, social and political nature have been discussed and
joint action has been taken. Initially these meetings consisted of such topics
as “How do we celebrate our festivals and what do they mean to us?” then moved
on to “How can we best educate our children in their faith?” before tackling
such questions as, “How do we see God?” and “What can we say of the salvation
of the other?” There are ups and downs in such a relationship, but persistence
and commitment on both sides have seen that we survive for a commendable number
of years.
Edwin: You are
designated to be the director of Henry Martyn Institute of Islamic Studies? How
do you plan to carry forward the wonderful work done by HMI?
Samuel: Over the
last few years, there have been all kinds of ideas emerging about the Church,
about different faith communities, which I have longed to explore and write up
a bit. So I’m hoping for more space to write and think in that way.
I’m certainly looking forward to being part of an academic community with a
open and assertive exchange of ideas, and to the challenges of helping that
community to work, which is part of the job of the head of an Institute.
And I think it’s not a million miles away from trying to make the community of
the interfaith family work. But essentially, I believe, you bring to the
office who you are, under God.
Edwin: What is the
importance of theological dialogue in today's context?
Samuel: Throughout
history, people of different religious traditions have encountered one another
in a variety of situations. In some instances, representatives of these
traditions have been enriched through sharing in one another’s experiences and
expressions of faith. In other situations members of these traditions have
either withdrawn within the “secure” parameters they have inherited or set
themselves, or embarked on discussions from dogmatically determined positions
not only as regards their own tradition, but also that of the “other.”
The importance of theological dialogue from an
ecumenical, inter-religious, global context should encourage all to move beyond
prejudice and bias, be it historical, cultural, social, or theological, in order
to cooperate wholeheartedly with all men and women of goodwill in promoting
peace, justice, harmony, human rights, and respect for all of God’s creation.
This is to be done especially through dialogue with those who are inspired by
religious commitment, or those who share a sense of transcendence that opens
them to universal values.
Pope John Paul II repeatedly urged we should make
inter-religious dialogue an “apostolic priority” for the third millennium. In a
world characterized by religious pluralism, a positive relationship with
faithful persons from all the world religions is a requirement in order to
achieve global peace and the goal of full dignity and justice for all human
beings.
Edwin: Are Indian
churches adequately interested in dialogue with Islam and Muslims?
Samuel: The Indian
Churches have traditionally maintained an ecclesiology that sees it as having a
pastoral concern for all people who live within the territory of the parish,
diocese or nation. This might be exemplified by the fact that all people who
live in a parish have the right to be married in the parish church and to be
buried from it even if they are not members of the Church or even Christians.
This applies also to members of other faith traditions, who have an equal right
to the services of the church. This pastoral concern can be seen in the
disposition of Christian schools in India. Like the parish church,
traditionally every person who lived in a parish had a right to have their
children educated in the parish school and so a Church school has more the
self-understanding of a “community school” rather than a “school for church
members.” In the recent past, religious communities have concentrated on
establishing and building up their own communities. Now the task of the future begins,
that is, to draw from the riches of these faith traditions to create a better
society. In this society all people, of any faith or none, can live truly
respecting the diversity of human values and allowing each other to grow to
their full potential.
Edwin: Often we
hear that only Christians are interested in dialogue, Muslims are not. How do
you see the statements like this?
Samuel: In a
middle-class commuter area of the New Delhi live a growing number of Muslim
professionals who have formed a Muslim Community Association. This group took
the initiative of contacting local Christians with a view to a monthly meeting
to discuss topics of mutual interest. This dialogue group is remarkable
in that the number of Muslims far outweighs the number of Christians. The
general format of an evening is that there will be a Christian and a Muslim
presentation around a set theme, which will be followed by a lengthy period of
questions and discussion.
Two interesting observations from this dialogue can be
made: first, the Muslim presentation consists of reading a number of passages
from the Qur’an with limited comments or acknowledgement of the associated body
of scholarship; second, while there are often diverse Christian voices showing
the range of such opinion, the Muslim voice is more monolithic, thus prompting
that impression of Islam. One difficulty thus exemplified is that there are few
Muslim scholars, who are deeply versed in the Islamic sciences, who take part
in such discussions. Participants tend to be educated in other disciplines and
have pursued limited private Islamic study. This can lead to a somewhat
truncated portrayal of Islam.
Edwin: Is there any
Islamic organisation that work for the welfare of Christian community in India?
Samuel: Yes, the Zakat
Foundation of India (ZFI) helps Christian students to compete in UPSC by
facilitating them to get the finest coaching in the esteemed coaching centres
in Delhi by financially supporting them annually to the rate of Rs.
2,00,000/-. In the 2012-13 school year there are 18 Christian
students getting their support through this scheme. The ZFI Fellowship
aims to alleviate the lack of Christian representation in the Civil Services,
via a merit-based approach.
The Zakat Foundation of India was established in 1997
as a grassroots level organization by concerned residents of New Delhi. It is a
Non-Governmental/Non-Profit Organization which collects and utilizes ‘zakat’ or
charity for socially beneficial projects in a transparent and organized manner.
Their projects include running an orphanage, charitable hospital, providing
stipends to widows, micro credit etc.
Edwin: What are the
areas of common interest between Muslims and Christians in India?
Samuel: The
importance of societal dialogue is obvious in light of the fact that today
almost all societies are plural. This calls for a common understanding of basic
values, norms and orientations which are verified, accepted and implemented by
all groups in the society. One of the basic characteristics of a modern and
civilized society is that no group should be marginalized or eliminated for
cultural, ethnic, religious, social or other reasons. The possibility to
participate in every field of social activity invites people to contribute to
the common welfare whatever treasures they have developed in their traditions
including social-ethical or spiritual values. The sharing of such values
undoubtedly strengthens mutual trust and respect among adherents of different
religions.
The teachings of most living religions reject acts of
violence, torture, vandalism or terror capable of destroying human life. These
are perpetrated by individuals as well as government policies that cultivate
injustice, , oppression, exploitation and discrimination., . Opposition to and
resistance against them should therefore be the natural and uncompromising
answer of all religious people, and the strategy of their actions should be a
united one, designed also in a societal dialogue.
Edwin: What can we
learn from the long interaction between Christians and Muslims in India?
Samuel: Throughout
our lives we continue learning and understanding, thus developing and
completing our identity and our perception of ourselves. This process may be
hampered whenever we are lacking the right motivation for further
investigation. Therefore, such a mutually stimulating encounter may be
described as a walking together on a path, rather like the disciples on their
way to Emmaus. While realizing our limited ability to understand perfectly, we
help each other to deepen our insights by reflecting also on the contributions
of the other one. In the course of such a walking, searching or even wrestling
together with the same or similar questions of meaning and truth, a deep mutual
appreciation or even friendship may develop despite the difference of religion
which remains a wound in our human relationships. Mutual trust needs to have
been established in order to stimulate each other through inter-religious
dialogue to come to more profound and comprehensive insights. The way to such
new and dynamic relationships is a long one, and those who stand aside merely
watching or theorizing – and not to mention those who are just criticizing –
will not be able to grasp what is really going on. We will therefore reflect on
the “long march” toward this new approach to dialogue.
Edwin: What do you
think that the world at large can learn from Indian experience?
Samuel: Our
willingness to build relationships through common study and sometimes through
common silence. We may not pray publicly together, for many reasons. Prayer
follows conviction. But we can sometimes keep silence together. We can
certainly look together at the sacred texts of different traditions. We can
watch how other people handle their sacred texts and their rituals and learn from that. And in that process we become able to
recognise some kind of integrity and some kind of depth in one another. It
doesn't mean I say, 'Oh well, you must be right.' But I can at least say, 'I
know you're serious.' And that's dialogue for me – the recognition of the
serious. And therefore if we find we can do things together -- in servicing,
witnessing, peace-making, then it will come out of depths, not shallows.